Deciding on Befaco Lich- some questions

OWL Lich
#1

Hi,

I am figuring out if I want to get a Befaco Lich. Having 12+ years of Max and Pd experience should surely help, but I got into modular to be away from the screen so trying to figure out how easy it would be to set up certain patches.

I’ve created a simple wavefolder patch in gen~ which runs beautifully on the online interface (patch is still private).

Right now I’m trying to create a sampler that samples audio (or CV) when you press and hold one of the buttons, and plays it back when you release it.
But I can’t figure out how to get the button (in the online sim) to work the way I want. It does work in Max/Gen~, but how does the button on the online interface and the Lich behave? Can I keep “holding” the button and will it continuously output 0? Or does it only take “bangs”, so to say? Is the online interface working correctly?
After looking at the Harmonic Lich patch, it seems the buttons on the online interface are just not responsive- is that correct? https://www.rebeltech.org/patch-library/patch/Harmonic_Lich

Oh and, could you give an estimation as to how many seconds of sound or CV I could store in a (mono) buffer when using gen~ or pd?

This would provide me with enough info to make a choice on if I go for it or not.

Thanks so much- and when this gets straightened out, I hope to order a Lich soon (and get a bigger case to fit it all in :wink:

Best,

Mark

#2

Buttons work as gates and output their state continuously, so you would have to compare it with previous state if you want to convert gate to trigger.

Regarding memory, it has 8 MB SDRAM chip, this should allow you to store about 43 seconds as mono buffer in in float format (with sample rate of 48000). I would expect gen~ and PD to use this kind of buffers, but am not 100% sure - I’m interested in C++ and FAUST myself. In case of C++ it’s also possible to store data as 16 bit integers instead of floats, giving you twice as much time, not sure if it can be done with PD/gen~.

Regarding PD, I think it can be quite confusing, because it’s Heavy compiler which has its own quirks compared to desktop PD. But you can check out the “Fascination Machine *” patches in online library as an example of what can be achieved with it with enough skill and dedication. I personally was impressed.

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#3

Can I keep “holding” the button and will it continuously output 0

Yes you get continuous 0 or 1 values.

it seems the buttons on the online interface are just not responsive

That is very possible. We’ve got a few updates on the web app we need to do, and are currently looking for a front end developer. Hopefully will be able to push a few fixes soon.

I’ve created a simple wavefolder patch in gen~ which runs beautifully on the online interface

Sounds fun! You can PM me if you want someone to try it on hardware. I could tell you right away a) does it work b) how much CPU and c) how much RAM it uses. Or just share a link here :slight_smile:

I’m trying to create a sampler

Cool. Did you have a look at our tutorials? I think the Pitch Grain Looper does something similar. And for Pure data there’s also Adam’s Sampler / Looper tutorial.

#4

and yes that’s right, 40+ seconds of audio buffers are available.

#5

Thanks so much for the quick answers~! This answers a lot of my questions.

Still trying to figure out what would be best, gen~ or Pd, as Pd does not allow for expressions with expr~, while gen~ does not allow for CV outputs and some other things which are, as I understand, still in development.

And yes- I found the tutorials, which were very helpful for filling in some gaps :slight_smile:

My wavefolder that I quickly put together can be found here:
https://www.rebeltech.org/patch-library/patch/mij_wavefolder still private, but I guess with the link you can view?

I’ll decide soon on the Lich, will let you know if I have any more questions. Thanks for now!

EDIT: Also added the simple sampler-test: https://www.rebeltech.org/patch-library/patch/mij_sampleRepeat. I set a data buffer of ~20 secs at 48k sampling rate.

#6

Okay cool, so this is what I get:

LOADED PATCH: mij.sampleRepeat
CONNECTED TO: Lich v21.0
CPU: 9% Memory: 3841000

that’s 3.66Mb used out of 8Mb.
And:

LOADED PATCH: mij.wavefolder
CONNECTED TO: Lich v21.0
CPU: 15% Memory: 66520

Wow the waveshaper is fun! I don’t know what it does but I think I like it :grin:

#7

Thanks so much for testing!! That gives me a feel for what it’s capabilities are like.
Like I said, I am still waiting for a bigger case, but might build some stuff in the mean time and ask you to test it at some point. Any idea on when CV in/out on gen~ will be available? :slight_smile:

#8

might build some stuff in the mean time and ask you to test it

No worries, just post it here and me or someone else can give it a spin.

CV in works already, all parameters can be CV controlled on the Lich.

#9

For the record, CV out is now working in gen~ patches and documentation has begun here:

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#10

I’ve started countdown to measure how many days will pass before someone asks for MIDI output as well.

#11

what is the midi jack on the back of module actually? I did assume there is midi out from the USB B socket and midi input through USB A - but the 3 pronged rear jack is for a break out?

#12

This just my guess, but it should be fairly close. It’s a connection to MCU UART port that can be later used as one of the following:

  • port for expander that adds serial MIDI input and output (necessary code exists in firmware and I’ve tested it with other devices before).

  • a protocol for connecting several modules together - most of the code for this is present in firmware, but there’s no support for user patches. I’ve experimented with this in the past and I think we’ll have it working some time next year

I suspect that there would be an official MIDI expander, but it’s also not too hard to make one and enable it with a custom firmware build if you know what you’re doing.

Serial/DIN MIDI is what’s used for those gigantic 5-pronged cables (often replaced by TRS minijacks in more modern devices).

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#13

Finally bought the Lich. Not sure if it’s gonna fit in my rack but we’ll see.
Started on some sympathetic strings like patch in gen~, will share when it’s finished and working well :slight_smile:

Thanks so much for all the answers to my questions so far.

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#14

Definitely share some awesome patches (and your frustration if things don’t work as expected)!

#15

While I’m waiting for the Lich, I’m very curious if my sympathetic strings-patch runs at all:

I had some fun with gen~ in figuring out how to save arrays of settings (in this case for the chords).

A selects pitch
B selects chord offsets. left half is out of tune, more chordal things to the right.
C is pluck/pickup combo
D is feedback/dampen combo

Let me know! I hope to have my Lich before the weekend.

#16

I don’t have a Lich among my devices (yet), but building and running it on Magus that has the same OWL board made the firmware hang. It’s a nice achievement!

Tried building a few gen~ patches from the library to make sure that there’s no issue with building them on my side, but nope - everything looks fine. Looking at patch source, it seems to use something like 30 delay lines, that’s probably too much.

#17

Ok, I’ve managed to get it to run on something else. It’s basically just a very CPU-heavy patch, using 3-5 times more CPU than what you can get on Lich.

Feedback gets over the top on some settings, sounds almost like SUNN O)))

EDIT: maybe calling it CPU heavy is not quite correct, I suspect that the issue is that there’s so many delays used. Access to SDRAM is a relatively slow operation, so MCU is just wasting time waiting for data to become available. There’s plenty of maths operations to perform in this patch as well, but I think that they are not the biggest problem.

So the best approach would be start with a simpler code that you can run on device and see how far you can push it before performance becomes an issue.

#18

Thanks @antisvin!

Today the Lich came and I quickly diminished my code from 4 to 3 voices, and the patch worked beautifully!! So amazing! :slight_smile:

A very very quick video, just sending in a pulse and getting a great drone out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdZw0vfE628&feature=youtu.be

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#19

You could also have the exciter as part of the patch. You could use up to 20 parameters in gen~ patches and control the remaining with MIDI controller connected to USB host.